Ah, mathematics. The bread and butter of logical thinkers everywhere. Personally, the subject is not really my cup of tea. I understand the importance and am willing to do the work required at school, but there are things I'd really rather do than sit in my geometry class and listen to my teacher drone on about proofs and proportions and this theorem and that theorem. That's why I didn't think I would be arguing for more study and more focus on the subject in schools.
Today in geometry, my teacher brought up something that may become effective for my class. It may be a school-wide decision, she didn't make it quite clear. Anyway, she said she had been talking about it with another teacher that uses the method, and was considering using it herself. The idea is this: instead of having quizzes be worth 25% of your grade and them acting like a short test, they would be treated more like a regular assignment. A student would take a quiz, and hand them in. Then, the teacher would pass them back and the student would see what problems they missed, and work with a partner or the teacher on the missed problems. Finally, once the paper was corrected, it would be turned in for credit. The value of a quiz, however, would be dropped to approximately 10-15% of your grade, and the test percentage would go up. I think in my class my teacher splits the percentages up like this right now: quizzes are worth 25%, regular assignments 25%, and tests 50%. Pretty standard. The new system would be like this: quizzes 10-15%, regular assignments 25%, and tests 60-65%.
I'll start with the pros of this choice, just to even out my argument a little. I think it is an excellent idea to be able to see what you did wrong on a problem. I have gotten tests and quizzes back from teachers in the past and not understood fully what I did wrong, and then not been able to go over it. It is extremely frustrating, especially when you end up making the same mistake again. Also, I think teachers encouraging students to work more with peers is great and totally beneficial. There should be a greater sense of unity with teenagers, although with our fickle natures unity is the hardest thing to manifest in a classroom.
Now, to the cons. Isn't this what homework is for? To do an assignment and practice the skills, then check over it the next day and work out the things that confused you? I don't know about other classes, but in my class my teacher asks every day if we had trouble with the homework. There are also ample opportunities to go to study club after school to get help. If we treat a quiz like an assignment, then what purpose do they really serve? Additionally, if we make tests worth 60-65%, then this system will not benefit the kids really. The average grade in my class at this point is a 71%. That's a C-. This means that a lot of the kids don't study, rarely complete homework, and don't do well on quizzes or tests. If one kid can copy off a smarter kid to correct their quiz, then they aren't learning anything. Therefore, they will be even more lax with their habits and get a bad grade on the test at the end of the chapter. If you don't make it important to do the work and do well on quizzes, there won't be very much motivation to get a good grade.
A possible reason for making this system is a benefit for the teacher; an attempt to raise the average grade, to make the teacher not look bad. A rather selfish reason, but if I end up being wrong and it raises the average, then more power to her. I don't agree with the method because it won't prepare students for the rigors of college and is coddling teenagers into not figuring things out for themselves, but what do I know. I am a teenager. But I am a teenager who knows what it's like to fail classes, and to pass classes. I understand that not all teaching methods work for all students, but I don't think that this is a good method. If there isn't good enough motivation with the right amount of positive enforcement, it's harder to learn. But if there is too much sensitivity and hand holding, it won't work either.
It seems like a big issue in schools in Washington is that kids aren't doing well in math. I think that it is extremely important that we raise standards, not lower them, like some politicians are saying we should do for the WASL. It's not only for the WASL, however; it's happening in our schools during the everyday. People in my class cheered at the thought of a less ominous quiz grade, and everyone booed me when I said that it was detrimental, but I'm in school to get ahead. We have the chance to broaden our minds and learn everything we can for free now, before we are adults and money dominates our lifestyles. And the teachers would coddle us, force us to crawl when we should be running? What is the sense in that? It's more important to get out of school what we can and learn how to eventually work out problems on our own than be led by the hand all the time. As young adults, it is imperative that this skill become a part of us.
Enough with the smiles and hand holding. We need discipline back in schools, or all we'll ever get is a failing grade and a returned application, with a "Thanks, but no thanks" apology written in bold red ink at the top.
Today in geometry, my teacher brought up something that may become effective for my class. It may be a school-wide decision, she didn't make it quite clear. Anyway, she said she had been talking about it with another teacher that uses the method, and was considering using it herself. The idea is this: instead of having quizzes be worth 25% of your grade and them acting like a short test, they would be treated more like a regular assignment. A student would take a quiz, and hand them in. Then, the teacher would pass them back and the student would see what problems they missed, and work with a partner or the teacher on the missed problems. Finally, once the paper was corrected, it would be turned in for credit. The value of a quiz, however, would be dropped to approximately 10-15% of your grade, and the test percentage would go up. I think in my class my teacher splits the percentages up like this right now: quizzes are worth 25%, regular assignments 25%, and tests 50%. Pretty standard. The new system would be like this: quizzes 10-15%, regular assignments 25%, and tests 60-65%.
I'll start with the pros of this choice, just to even out my argument a little. I think it is an excellent idea to be able to see what you did wrong on a problem. I have gotten tests and quizzes back from teachers in the past and not understood fully what I did wrong, and then not been able to go over it. It is extremely frustrating, especially when you end up making the same mistake again. Also, I think teachers encouraging students to work more with peers is great and totally beneficial. There should be a greater sense of unity with teenagers, although with our fickle natures unity is the hardest thing to manifest in a classroom.
Now, to the cons. Isn't this what homework is for? To do an assignment and practice the skills, then check over it the next day and work out the things that confused you? I don't know about other classes, but in my class my teacher asks every day if we had trouble with the homework. There are also ample opportunities to go to study club after school to get help. If we treat a quiz like an assignment, then what purpose do they really serve? Additionally, if we make tests worth 60-65%, then this system will not benefit the kids really. The average grade in my class at this point is a 71%. That's a C-. This means that a lot of the kids don't study, rarely complete homework, and don't do well on quizzes or tests. If one kid can copy off a smarter kid to correct their quiz, then they aren't learning anything. Therefore, they will be even more lax with their habits and get a bad grade on the test at the end of the chapter. If you don't make it important to do the work and do well on quizzes, there won't be very much motivation to get a good grade.
A possible reason for making this system is a benefit for the teacher; an attempt to raise the average grade, to make the teacher not look bad. A rather selfish reason, but if I end up being wrong and it raises the average, then more power to her. I don't agree with the method because it won't prepare students for the rigors of college and is coddling teenagers into not figuring things out for themselves, but what do I know. I am a teenager. But I am a teenager who knows what it's like to fail classes, and to pass classes. I understand that not all teaching methods work for all students, but I don't think that this is a good method. If there isn't good enough motivation with the right amount of positive enforcement, it's harder to learn. But if there is too much sensitivity and hand holding, it won't work either.
It seems like a big issue in schools in Washington is that kids aren't doing well in math. I think that it is extremely important that we raise standards, not lower them, like some politicians are saying we should do for the WASL. It's not only for the WASL, however; it's happening in our schools during the everyday. People in my class cheered at the thought of a less ominous quiz grade, and everyone booed me when I said that it was detrimental, but I'm in school to get ahead. We have the chance to broaden our minds and learn everything we can for free now, before we are adults and money dominates our lifestyles. And the teachers would coddle us, force us to crawl when we should be running? What is the sense in that? It's more important to get out of school what we can and learn how to eventually work out problems on our own than be led by the hand all the time. As young adults, it is imperative that this skill become a part of us.
Enough with the smiles and hand holding. We need discipline back in schools, or all we'll ever get is a failing grade and a returned application, with a "Thanks, but no thanks" apology written in bold red ink at the top.
4 comments:
Your teaccher was discussing this with another teacher that uses this method. That teacher was probably Ms. O'Connel, my Trig teacher. what gives me this idea? Probably the fact that the grading scale used by Ms. O'Connel is EXACTLY that. I have experienced firsthand the horrors of this grading system.
Pros- I failed ALOT of the quizzes. as only 10% of my grade, it really didn't do much harm. Also, I dont pay much attention to the teacher when she discusses the material, and alot of people dont do the homework. On the quizzes, however, I pay close attention to exactly HOW the problems are done, thus helping me.
Cons- If you fail, it doesn't impact your grade, but the impact of correcting your test for credit is WAY too small. You can still ask to see other people's quizzes with the 25% plan too, so that "advantage" really doesnt exist. And one more thing: 60% test grade? EVIL. VERY EVIL. i guess it's fine if you get decent grades on the tests, but it's otherwise for certain others. these same people somehow manage to get good grades on quizzes though. However, with an impact that large, 1 bad test could potentially transform the face of your former B to a blemished, oilly, zit-covered C. Even with the other tests to try and balance the grade back, the possibility remains that you may never see that clean grade/face thing again.
VOTE NEG!!!
The biggest problem I have with this system is that it's redundant and is one example of how teachers are influencing kids in a bad way. I am going to get an A no matter what because I do my homework and study, but to say that this system will help the other kids more than what we are doing now is ridiculous. The truth of the matter is, most of the kids that do not study right now will probably continue to not study. And this new system will allow them to learn less from the quizzes. They will be able to blow them off more, because they will know that their effort will not give them the grade. The smart kid sitting next to them will give them their grade, or the teacher will. It's not learning, and doesn't help anyone in the long run when they go to college or try to get jobs.
What scares me is that some of these people will be the future scientists, engineers, and so forth of this country. They will be trying to earn degrees and some will get them saying that they know their stuff. That's why bridges fall apart and towers fall. Because they skated with a C in college. The habits and systems teachers put us through now will influence us later in life to have to have our hands held.
My dad is just now finishing his degree from Seattle University. He is training to become an electrical engineer, and is doing a senior project that involves constructing a functioning Canbus system for Boeing planes. This is a really big deal because if it works, it will be used on the planes. Airbus and Boeing have been trying to get one going for a long time now. The reason they haven't been able to do it is because the ARINC specification, a sort of program guide that shows how to build it, keeps being modified and changes according to technology advances and so forth. My dad has been the only person ever to be able to get it working to the point of a tangible piece of hardware that takes commands. But the project will fail. Do you know why? Because his team members can't pull their heads out of their asses.
They don't do any work, which is code writing. These guys are computer science engineers, or are supposed to be, and this work should be right up their alley, but they don't know what the fuck they are doing. They haven't read the ARINC spec. They would rather go to their extracurricular club meetings than to project meetings. It is my dad's impression that they don't even give a shit about it, and in June they will have to give a presentation My dad has explained the situation to his counsellor, and you know what the counsellor says all the time? "Let them come around." "Be patient." He has said this since the project began in October. Only just recently has he gotten one of the team members to contribute, and that member has just begun reading the spec. One of the others wants to start writing code for it using code that the ARINC spec clearly states should not be used for the final product. And the counsellor still holds their hands.
Have these people been going to school for the past four years? What have they been doing all this time? Why can't they do work that will be expected of them as computer science engineers? Have they just been able to be content to skate with C's all through college?
These people are going to get diplomas saying that they know their shit alongside my dad, who actually knows what they fuck he's doing.
Well, actually, one of them won't, just because he hasn't met the credit requirement.
But this is where coddling and lack of discipline gets us in schools. This is why the school system is failing and people aren't meeting the standards. I'm not saying teachers should beat kids if they get an answer wrong. But something has to be done, or the seriousness of the real world won't hit them until the bridge collapses, the plane falls from the sky, and so forth.
To me, it's not about the pettiness right now. It's about how our elders are bit by bit making the coming generations incompetent by saying the average is okay, that it's okay to skate with a C, that a B is okay. You don't have to be totally hardcore, but it should be more impressed upon us that we have to get ahead, and that settling for less is not okay.
I'm a filthy hypocrite because I have a B+ in Biology, and I'm okay with that grade. Well, so I am. I should try harder and get A's, because it is possible. I understand the consequences of my actions perfectly. But perhaps others don't think about it so much.
Everything is connected. One little change in how quizzes are graded may not seem like a big deal, but on a wider scale it sure is.
I'll get off my soap box now.
My teacher, Mr. Hedlund, has not even started into that possibility. I am taking a College level class with a college level book with no college credit attacted to it.
It's just not going to happen in Pre Calculus.
Right now, we do not get tests back to see our mistakes except for a few brief moments. We don't even get finals back at all.
While I believe the decrease of percentage for quizzes and tests may be beneficial to some and not so much to others.... I believe we should be able to get our tests back, if only to learn from our mistakes. Isn't that one of the key points of high/middle school?
I would much rather get tests back to discuss and work on. I do my homework and I study intensely but I test horribly. Like for the final. I tested for 5 DAYS and yet. 64% on my final!
Am I slacker? Am I skirter? Am I not as smart as the rest of my class?
Hell no. I work my ass off. I need to see these mistakes, because I do alot of wimpy little mistakes that I shouldn't, and I need to see what happened in the process and what keeps happening over and over. I would love to see my final.
Of course, it might be the unbearable stress and that fact math doesn't do it for me like it used to. But I think we all have a valuable lesson to learn from just simply getting them back and looking over them, talking about them. Not nessicarily correcting them, no, but just seeing the evidence of what we need to fix.
Yes yes over coddling... Coddling in school systems is bad. I agree. There is no coddling in Pre Calc, I can assure you of that. No curves, no nothing.
I am too a supporter of something no one supports... Getting back state tests to look at. ITBS, WASL, ect. I hate all this mystery as to how its graded and which sections we're dumb in. it's not helping anyone correct those mistakes.
And back on the subject of tests - bear with my jumping about - I don't believe tests should determine your future, not the ones we take anyways... I understand things like shop tests and cooking test, real hard evidence, not jus memorized meaningless information we'll never use.... Some people, plain and simple are bad test takers and other remember the information and go from that. But can I apply the math? Can I apply the history concepts? Can I apply the Biology? Hell yes. I don't need meaningless dates and numbers and names to do that. The real reason we learn them.
I say bullshit to standerized tests. Bullshit.
Another Jump, sorry, apologies.
"Isn't this what homework is for? To do an assignment and practice the skills, then check over it the next day and work out the things that confused you? I don't know about other classes, but in my class my teacher asks every day if we had trouble with the homework. There are also ample opportunities to go to study club after school to get help. If we treat a quiz like an assignment, then what purpose do they really serve? Additionally, if we make tests worth 60-65%, then this system will not benefit the kids really. The average grade in my class at this point is a 71%. That's a C-. This means that a lot of the kids don't study, rarely complete homework, and don't do well on quizzes or tests."
As I've mention aforehand... I do my homework, study rigoursly and yet? 73.1 in Pre Calc. And I ask for help. From the teacher, my dad (who is an electrical engineer), and ect. (There's no study clubs with Pre Calc though and a tutor personally offends me... no offense.)
In class, I don't raise my hand though, I'm quiet and over blown by Seniors and Juniors in my class. People that just jump out. Just because the average is out there doesn't mean these kids don't try. We do. We do.
I'm the second lowest grade in my class for christ's sake...
Two people below me and the other one dropped out. It's rigorous and tough, and stressful. You get nervous on test days. I really don't know if I have a point or a method to my madness... I really hope there were points in there somewhere....
Pre calc is a different story... it's a college class, yes? In college, you don't get to look at things that you did wrong. You get essays with comments if really lucky. But for the most part, you take the test, get a score, and that's it.
And something I perhaps should have mentioned more is that some students don't test well. I don't know a solution to that, except perhaps more practice when younger, or something... I dunno. My class is kind of different because I know for a fact that most of the kids don't do homework. Ms. Maves is pretty open about it when people haven't turned stuff in.
I used to not test well at all. I've gotten better for reasons unbeknownst to me other than I study a lot. I believe it when you say you study Liz, don't worry about it. I just don't know what to tell you.
And standardized tests? They aren't so standarized. The state is considering changing it so we don't have to pass to graduate. I can understand the people who don't test well, and maybe they should change it so that the kids who learn differently and need different testing methods get tested that way. But to not pass and get a diploma... I think that's stupid. If they are going to impress it upon us at school that it's so important, I think they should focus more on that curriculum and prepare us properly, and then make it so we have to pass.
I dunno. You bringing up the fact more that everyone learns differently is kind of unravelling my gung-ho plan for schools. lol. I don't know what I'm talking about.
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